I'm atheist but from the other direction. I was a "Christian" of the Lutheran sect because my parents were Lutheran and their parents were Lutheran and their parents. And so on. My family were good Germans and not stupid. OK. Maybe some of them weren't so smart. I grew up with the stories.
Eventually I got around to actually reading the Bible like Martin Luther want us to do. I also read a lot of mythology. I like stories and metaphors. The Bible tells both beautiful and horrible stories. Written by humans, and mostly male humans, to explain the human condition. I don't believe in myths but I appreciate the stories, poetry, fables, heroes, villains, and all the interesting characters they give to us.
Was Jesus a real man? Does it really matter? 🤔 Can we learn anything from Jesus? I have. People pick and choose their heroes.
I saw an interesting video that claimed that Jesus didn't exist, and even though I'm an atheist, my first thought was, "Whether Jesus existed or not doesn't matter. People will believe no matter what." I completely agree that Jesus existed by the way.
James, would you recommend a couple of good sources, other than religious texts or the word of a church (particularly the child-rapey kind) for Jesus being a real boy? Is the argument/hypothesis/theory that Jesus is an amalgam of Jewish rabble-rousers valid? Was he one person? I'm an ex-Catholic atheist who really likes the idea of Jesus being a myth, but I also really don't like being wrong and I abhor others who deny overwhelming evidence and I pride myself on not doing that. There is so much religious propaganda out there, who would you recommend reading on this subject?
I find it intriguing that there are people with a vested interest in believing Jesus didn't exist. I am a Jewish atheist, so it matters not one whit to me whether he was a real person (and it does appear that he was). Any meaningful inquiry regarding how/why religions are born, or how they become so popular and powerful is a far more interesting discussion than nit-picking about the extent to which the stories that evolved into religious dogma were objectively factual events. The power any religion holds over its believers is its ability to elevate a story that will feel true and wise to those who want to believe it, regardless of it's actual source.
Well the problem lies within that the Jesus story copies from older myths a lot. And though it's said that Mary and Joseph traveled to Bethlehem for a census. There wasn't any record of them doing so in the time described in the bible. Jesus may have been a real person but the story has a lot of flaws. Hence why many atheists are sceptical
I was under the impression there was no record of Jesus (Yahweh?) for 100 years after he "lived" in either Roman or Greek history. Are you saying this is irrelevant, because he was not famous until after he died? Wouldn't there have been a record of his "death"? Or his trial? I love history, but do not have the researching skills necessary to call myself a historian. Just wondering, after reading your blog, whether that matters.... ?
Comparing doctors that understand the dangers of vaccines and historians not believing in Jesus is a stupid and dangerous comparison...one can kill the other is whatever it is...who cares if Jesus existed or not, if that was his real name, if he had long hair or not, if his mother was a virgin (lol) or not, etc. Vaccines can damage and kill, belief is a prophet not so much. You need to stop talking about vaccines in any capacity until you have actually done some independent research and not just popular news stations and bought and paid for medical people. Time to stfu about vaccines that have been proven to damage people until you are ready to face real facts. Stop being such a sheep.
Whether or not Jesus existed (and, he did) is almost irrelevant. His image and name have been so mythologized in the 2k years successive to him, and have infuenced western culture at such a microscopic level, that any connection to a factual person is of little significance. As you say, it probably comes from the beliefe (mistakenly) that denying the reality of the symbol will cut the legs out from under the belief.
I'm a Christian and obviously believe Jesus existed. I also agree that most Christians haven't read the Bible or at least don't follow the teachings. It's truly unfortunate. I love reading your posts because you are objective and don't have a reason to say Jesus was real other than the truth.
I am reading a very engaging and interesting book by Reza Aslan, a Muslim, about the historical Jesus and what he was and was not: "Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth." I recommend it. It was a very confusing, violent time. Zealots were rabble-rousers, as Jesus was. He existed--just not as many people believe.
I had thought that Jesus existed but no miracles, just a run of the mill guy starting his own religion. I'm not a believer in religion, but I did get called out on that on social media. Nice to find out I've got some basis in fact because I don't care enough to do the research. :D
Dang, man, you're not going to go far by being so damned reasonable and balanced.
I'm atheist but from the other direction. I was a "Christian" of the Lutheran sect because my parents were Lutheran and their parents were Lutheran and their parents. And so on. My family were good Germans and not stupid. OK. Maybe some of them weren't so smart. I grew up with the stories.
Eventually I got around to actually reading the Bible like Martin Luther want us to do. I also read a lot of mythology. I like stories and metaphors. The Bible tells both beautiful and horrible stories. Written by humans, and mostly male humans, to explain the human condition. I don't believe in myths but I appreciate the stories, poetry, fables, heroes, villains, and all the interesting characters they give to us.
Was Jesus a real man? Does it really matter? 🤔 Can we learn anything from Jesus? I have. People pick and choose their heroes.
They see what they want to see.
They hear what they want to hear.
I saw an interesting video that claimed that Jesus didn't exist, and even though I'm an atheist, my first thought was, "Whether Jesus existed or not doesn't matter. People will believe no matter what." I completely agree that Jesus existed by the way.
Very much my feeling as well.
James, would you recommend a couple of good sources, other than religious texts or the word of a church (particularly the child-rapey kind) for Jesus being a real boy? Is the argument/hypothesis/theory that Jesus is an amalgam of Jewish rabble-rousers valid? Was he one person? I'm an ex-Catholic atheist who really likes the idea of Jesus being a myth, but I also really don't like being wrong and I abhor others who deny overwhelming evidence and I pride myself on not doing that. There is so much religious propaganda out there, who would you recommend reading on this subject?
Thanks!
I find it intriguing that there are people with a vested interest in believing Jesus didn't exist. I am a Jewish atheist, so it matters not one whit to me whether he was a real person (and it does appear that he was). Any meaningful inquiry regarding how/why religions are born, or how they become so popular and powerful is a far more interesting discussion than nit-picking about the extent to which the stories that evolved into religious dogma were objectively factual events. The power any religion holds over its believers is its ability to elevate a story that will feel true and wise to those who want to believe it, regardless of it's actual source.
My comments are on FB. Too lazy to retype, too old to copy.
Dan Barker, in his book Godless, has a different conclusion. Dan's the co- president of Freedom From Religion Foundation, btw.
It doesn't matter. Does Jesus never existing change anything at all? Do you think the zealots will care?
No, it doesn't. Believers worship an invisible non existent God already.
Well the problem lies within that the Jesus story copies from older myths a lot. And though it's said that Mary and Joseph traveled to Bethlehem for a census. There wasn't any record of them doing so in the time described in the bible. Jesus may have been a real person but the story has a lot of flaws. Hence why many atheists are sceptical
I was under the impression there was no record of Jesus (Yahweh?) for 100 years after he "lived" in either Roman or Greek history. Are you saying this is irrelevant, because he was not famous until after he died? Wouldn't there have been a record of his "death"? Or his trial? I love history, but do not have the researching skills necessary to call myself a historian. Just wondering, after reading your blog, whether that matters.... ?
Comparing doctors that understand the dangers of vaccines and historians not believing in Jesus is a stupid and dangerous comparison...one can kill the other is whatever it is...who cares if Jesus existed or not, if that was his real name, if he had long hair or not, if his mother was a virgin (lol) or not, etc. Vaccines can damage and kill, belief is a prophet not so much. You need to stop talking about vaccines in any capacity until you have actually done some independent research and not just popular news stations and bought and paid for medical people. Time to stfu about vaccines that have been proven to damage people until you are ready to face real facts. Stop being such a sheep.
Wow. You dumb.
That's a creative and intelligent comment.
For someone who is “notaconspiracytheorist” you’re sure spouting a lot of conspiracy-based crap.
Whether or not Jesus existed (and, he did) is almost irrelevant. His image and name have been so mythologized in the 2k years successive to him, and have infuenced western culture at such a microscopic level, that any connection to a factual person is of little significance. As you say, it probably comes from the beliefe (mistakenly) that denying the reality of the symbol will cut the legs out from under the belief.
I'm a Christian and obviously believe Jesus existed. I also agree that most Christians haven't read the Bible or at least don't follow the teachings. It's truly unfortunate. I love reading your posts because you are objective and don't have a reason to say Jesus was real other than the truth.
I am reading a very engaging and interesting book by Reza Aslan, a Muslim, about the historical Jesus and what he was and was not: "Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth." I recommend it. It was a very confusing, violent time. Zealots were rabble-rousers, as Jesus was. He existed--just not as many people believe.
I had thought that Jesus existed but no miracles, just a run of the mill guy starting his own religion. I'm not a believer in religion, but I did get called out on that on social media. Nice to find out I've got some basis in fact because I don't care enough to do the research. :D
Maybe not... https://youtu.be/r9DPTKRxtDw?si=r4ayeEyxCxHrAFBi